Yes, it’s as stupid as it sounds, but that’s the only conclusion one can draw. You should check this out over here. It’s all over the place! So again, an apostate is…
a·pos·tate /əˈpɒsteɪt, -tɪt/
(noun)
1. a person who forsakes his religion, cause, party, etc.
(adjective)
2. of or characterized by apostasy.
If the courts do not allow her to forsake Islam, then she must remain a Muslim, yes? The courts do not allow her to forsake islam, formally!
If she remains a Muslim officially, then she cannot have been an apostate. Because, you see, being an apostate is not a state of mind… oh, wait! It is! It’s like not saying “I do not believe in Aâ€, but saying “I believe in B†while avoiding saying “I do not believe in Aâ€.
So now she’s got to say, I’m a muslim - yes. But I’m a christian too. No.. No, wait that can’t be right! How can one be an adherent of two different religions?! So now if anyone asks for her I/C she must admit “I am a Muslim†(but I’m actually a christian…).
A small question: while we’re all caught up in the implications of a positive or (indeed, as it happens) negative verdict against Lina Joy, what’s her status now? She’s officially muslim, but not really. Per constitution, she’s officially Malay, but not really. She’s officially a Bumi, but not really. She’s single, but not really. So, um. How?
So, hey, when are those Jakim trucks gonna roll up to take her away? If she’s muslim officially, she needs to enjoy the love and tenderness of a “rehabilitation campâ€. Unless Jakim are happy with Lina Joy being a muslim only in form and not substance. (She’s only a Malay in form and not substance…?!)
Haha.. Oh well. Now that’s she’s officially a muslim, I wonder if the muslim community is going to treat her like a pariah. You mean you don’t remember the invective spewed by ultra-fascist muslims prior to today’s judgement? Shame on you… After so much hate, it’ll be fun to “see the love..â€
:)
Comments (12)
I think the decision was made purely not to offend the Majority, which means a HUGE setback for freedom and freedom to choose. I doubt Jakim would be foolish enough to capture her, but they have been doing some really foolish things lately. Bottomline is, this issue is not going to be swept under the rug. More brave people are going to come forward, and sooner or later, something will change. For better or worse, I donno. I fear it will be for worse.
the sad thing is that it has to take the court to decide for her which religion she belongs to. religion, as everyone would say, is a personal matter - between the god and the individual, so nobody and nothing should prevent the individual from choosing her/his religion.
heck, even if a person may jump from one religion to another, though we may question her/his faith, or criticise her/him for playing around with religions, it’s still no business of hers which religion/s she/he wants to be.
30 may 2007 - as nick saids somewhere, sad day for justice and freedom in malaysia. :(
The only thing I truly fear is, six months down the road, Lina Joy appears on TV, chaste, virginal and saintly declaring that she’s now fully muslim in thought and deed. Not because I think Islam is a bad religion, mind.
I hear of crowds celebrating in front of the court house and I wonder: what are they celebrating?! It’s just funny, that’s all.
This matter could have been dealt with discreetly. Did she ever try to seek declaration from the Syariah Court first before going to town with the issue?
To V
Its not about being discreet. If she really wanted to she could have fled the country ages ago. Rather, its the belief that the “Freedom to religion” article in our constitution is for all rather than for everyone except a Malay.
No other country in the world, with the world’s most populous muslim country (Indonesia) in mind, identifies race with religion, other than here.
This is not a setback for Christians or non-muslims but a disaster for Malays as it just means Malay=Muslim=No religious freedom.
@v: i don’t know. I could say it’s because she has no extraordinary reasons on which to rely to have a fighting chance at convincing the syariah courts to let her renounce, I suppose. the other argument, and one I favour, is that she has already renounced the religion, and therefore should not come under the ambit of the provisions of said religion.
Just a tiny indentity card. Nothing big deal. Move to Singapore or New Zealand or Canada, and leave Malaysia behind go on a life as non muslim in other country.
What is so good about this country?
But it is good to make this news big to let the whole world know and let them spending time and money on court.
As a muslim, they have a responsibility to refrain a muslim from being an apostasy. As a malaysian, we have a responsibility to ensure freedom is not being misused by some individual who know what they doing is wrong, but then misconcept our mind with the word human freedom. How many more human freedom/right do we have to give later. Sick of all the people who use their sort call excuses of freedom /human right which actually more to their individual right. Obviously, in this cases is clearly stated there’s a law & procedure but just that one not willing to face the authority, then they start to blame those to them is not “at their part” - and as a result there is a negative tumor breed among malaysian people.
Wonder whats next on malaysia news - gays fighting for human right, right for individual to own a weapon for the name of security. God!, be adult lah malaysian….
In an ideal world, homosexuals should have similar rights as heterosexuals.
@Malaysian: I take your point that the fight for “human rights” can be used as a tool, political or otherwise. But the crux of the matter revolves around what one woman (out of many) feel is right. Apostasy may be wrong in Islam, but I respectfully submit that having the courage to stand for what one feels to be right in this particular case is the right thing to do: she doesn’t want to be Muslim.
Yes, she didn’t approach the Syariah Courts for a remedy. But as Dato’ Malunjam’s pointed out, it is unfair to expect her to declare herself an apostate when it is highly, highly possible that she’ll be incarcerated for up to 36 months in a rehabilitation camp, fined or imprisoned. Her case challenged the jurisdiction the syariah courts had over adjudicating conversions out of Islam.
The way i see it she’s already an apostate whether the court says she is or not.. Fighting all the way just to get the word “Islam” removed from her IC card sounds like a foolish fight to me. she must be very much influenced by “murtad mama” - the person who fought on the internet for the removal of “Islam” on IC cards a few years back - or was she mama-murtad herself? Could be… if she doesnt want to believe in Islam then just go ahead la.. there’s no need to tell the whole world about it; and in the end just getting herself into more trouble…
Muslims who have made this stupid law should be shot dead!!!
Even if you r in arab saudi, you can convert easily. Religion your not born with, but rather believe. Lina joy has told the world he is a christian. What can u do? change her mind? torture her? she will stil be a christian.
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